I was in two minds whether to publish this or not. To be honest I was horrified when I saw it. The Oxford Vaccine Trial, attached to Oxford University, are looking for young people, children from age 6 to 17 years of age, to take part in a study to enable them to assess if children can be protected from Covid 19, with a new vaccine called ChAdOx1 nCOV19.
The trial length is one year, blood tests will be needed, and you have to live near one of the four centres which are participating. Oxford, London, Southampton, and Bristol. 300 participants are needed. There is a £10 reimbursement for each study visit. The study is funded by AstraZeneca and The National Institute of Health Research.
I know they are running trials for adults where they have to have a Covid test every month, two of my friends are on it. That's all well and good if someone wants to offer their body for research. Adults can make up their own minds. But asking a six year old if they want to have a needle stuck in their arm several times over a period of a year, plus blood samples taken, how would they understand what it was for. What parent would agree to that?
When I was six, up to about the age of 11 ish, I was running around catching all kinds of nasties as I played in the dirt. Pond fishing, collecting frog spawn, climbing trees and falling out of them. Grazed knees and elbows. I also caught all the coughs and sneezes that were going around. It was normal to let kids catch things so they built up a natural immunity. Going home crying was part of it, mum always kissed it better and put a plaster on it.
I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that life isn't like that any more. It's a changing world and I don't like it very much.
It's sunny outside and I have a dog walk to do. Hope I don't fall over, the snow and ice is still here. Enjoy your weekend whatever you are doing. Toodle pip. ilona
I would never let a child of mine be entered into that study.
ReplyDeleteCouldn’t agree more. It’s like Brave New World.
ReplyDeleteI'm struggling with the world at present
ReplyDeleteSo many of my values changing
Understand your concerns, but what would have happened if nobody tested the polio, diphtheria or measles vaccines, It is a very hard decision.
ReplyDeleteI do agree Moira. Cures have to begin somewhere. When we were kids and we had the polio or diphtheria or measles vaccination, did we know what research had been carried out? Did our parents even know? Maybe in those days people weren't so inquisitive. They were just glad of the chance to protect their children from deadly illnesses. Now it seems too much information is available due to the internet. In some ways that is good in others bad. There would not be a vaccine for Vivid at all of volunteers had not stepped forward to help with trials. The world will not stand still. Medicine is constantly evolving. We all have to accept that in order for the human race to survive, advances have to be made to develop new drugs and give future generations the chance to enjoy good health.
DeleteI'm in this camp, along with Linda and Moira. I really do question putting children in these trials, but I also remember polio. Polio was primarily a children's disease. My best friend had it just a few weeks before the Salk vaccine was approved. For the last 20 years, since age 50 or so, she has has severe, debilitating post-polio syndrome issues. Few doctors know how to treat post-polio because they haven't seen polio in their lifetimes (the Salk vaccine was approved in 1955). Obviously, we need children in trials for children's diseases, but where is the line, and at what point do you cross it? I don't think this is a black and white issue. I wouldn't do it for 10 pounds (I'm an American and don't have the pounds sterling sign) but I might do it for free if I thought I was contributing to saving lives.
DeleteI think a point worth noting here is that ost children who become infected with the COVID-19 virus have no symptoms, or they have milder symptoms such as low-grade fever, fatigue, and cough. Early studies suggested that children do not contribute much to the spread of coronavirus. But more recent studies raise concerns that children could be capable of spreading the infection. A vaccination doesnt stop the spread of covid. While the vaccines will prevent life-threatening infection (thats the idea anyway), none of the three working vaccines has proven they can stave off the virus altogether. The same goes for preventing spread.
DeleteExcellent summary of the facts,SB! Personally, I can't see any circumstances in which my conscience would permit me to enrol a healthy child in a scientific experiment. Drug companies are amoral and no matter what good comes out of their products, profit is the motive and we must always be vigilant when interacting with them. Ger in Ireland
DeleteThere's no way i would let a child of mine be on that trial. I'm not even sure if i want the vaccine myself so i wouldn't let my children be guinea pigs for it.
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ReplyDeleteTo get to this stage it must have been deemed safe. However the ethics of consent would really bother me, especially a child as young as 6.
Hi Ilona, I've been reading about those trials, too. I think that any parent who allows their child to be used as a Guinea pig is not fit to have children. I wouldn't let them test it on my cats, never mind kids! If anyone in my family ever did that to their kids I would disown them - although thankfully, no-one in my family would ever even consider it. The thought of it disgusts me, it's utterly shameful.
ReplyDeleteI'm the same as you, regarding upbringing and childhood illnesses, had them all! Spent all day playing in the mud near the docks, always had grazed knees, it was great. I'm so glad I was a child of that time. We had measles/mumps/chickenpox/'German measles' parties back then so that we could all catch whatever was going around at the time, and be done with it. The last time I had an antibiotic was for an ear infection, around 45 years ago. Last time I had flu was about 20 years ago. I get the odd cold now and then but my immune system soon zaps that. I'm in my sixties and have absolutely no health problems. Did you know that the mumps virus strengthens your resistance to ovarian cancer? It makes fascinating reading - makes me wonder what benefits the other childhood illnesses bestow. Shame that most children now will never reap those benefits.
On a lighter note, I got my wish and woke up to a decent snowfall 😊! It's raining now so there's not much left, but it was lovely while it lasted. Hope you have/had a nice walk, bye for now. Xxx
Most of the diseases Liz mentions can be fatal. People have died from them--wonder how many caught them at those "parties"?
DeleteAs for sepsis, I've survived it twice, thanks to antibiotics. Obviously, I'm not against clinical trials, but I do have serious ethical questions about involving children who cannot consent.
I am having my second (Moderna) Covid-19 vaccination Monday. A lot of people who said they wouldn't take the shot before it was approved are lining up for it now that they can get it. I'm 75 with no underlying health conditions. My husband is 76 with a slew of underlying conditions. We never considered not taking a vaccine when it became available.
After reading the article I would doubt it would involve 6year olds. The cash on offer (£50) would not be enough to tempt parents I would think as regards remuneration. The next age group is 16years and over, who can make their own decision.
ReplyDeleteDid you read all of it? Here is the information sheet for 6 - 11 year olds. Parental consent is needed.
Deletehttps://covid19vaccinetrial.web.ox.ac.uk/files/cov006participantinformationsheet6-11yearsv2009feb2021cleanpdf
Helen, I can't access the link you sent.
ReplyDeleteThanks Helen. Got it. I have been following Mike Yeadon for a long time. He is an expert in his field.
DeleteI remember when I was a child if a friend had an illness that I had not yet had, my mother would encourage me to visit them so that I could catch it. This used to be normal practice amongst the Mothers as they used to believe that by experiencing all the childhood viruses, it would help to build up the immune system. My goodness if they did that in modern times they would be accused of neglect and child abuse. I remember many years ago when I worked in a drs surgery and noticed how a lot of people would request antibiotics for every day symptoms like a cough etc. The Dr told me that they were not allowing their immune systems to work as the antibiotic takes over from it and does the job for it. I wonder what the long term effect this has on the immune system
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't volunteer my children for £500 a visit. Sadly though I can see the money appealing to hard up parents whether their child consents or not.
ReplyDeleteBody autonomy is a very important issue to me personally and it's something I teach all my children about from day 1.
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I think we need to understand that without trials on children there would be no vaccine available for diphtheria, polio, meningitis, measles, smallpox (now no more) tetanus, rubella etc. Now some of these diseases are mild but not always. I know a man who is sterile through mumps infection, and I have eye damage from measles myself. A child of 6 caught Covid and it went on to Kawasaki disease. He will now have permanent heart problems and may need a transplant in later years. He had no underlying health conditions before catching this virus so it's not always mild in children sadly.
ReplyDeleteI guess all vaccines are tested on babies and children so this seems no different. Did anyone condemning this trial not vaccinate their own children, or have holiday vaccines, malaria tablets antibiotics etc. When you give your child antibiotics, Calpol etc remember all medication is trialled before release. Would you refuse cancer treatment for a child, as that's all trialled as well. Someone has to be the guinea pig of the appropriate age.
Six year olds are more aware than we were way back then, some, or even most would understand what is happening and why and I suppose there could be an opt out option if they change their mind after a few months.
ReplyDeleteI'd worry more for kids who get signed up just because the parents want or need the money.
There will be parents who will do this...................for the money
ReplyDeleteYes possibly Sally but in the future. This is too rushed. there literally hasnt been enough time to see the medium and long term effects on consenting adults and children are far less likely to be seriously ill. They need to slow down and not put profits before safety in trials.
ReplyDeleteSb. They really aren't putting profits before safety with Covid vaccinations -not in UK anyway. They are selling at cost price to the Government. The trials and so forth are not that rushed either. Because money has been thrown at it the trails have been run parallel to each other. They have latched onto Covids drugs already in testing and trials, hastened things up and come up with a working vaccination. I can see a new version needed each year like the current Flu vaccination.
ReplyDeleteThe first part of a clinical trial establishes the safety of the drug. The second part establishes efficacy (effectiveness). The efficacy trials don't begin until safety has been established. The length of the trials for the Covid vaccine were the same as for other drugs--we just aren't as aware of what goes on every single year to make flu vaccine. Researchers were able to hit the ground running. Before they even started, the researchers already had identified Covid-19 as a corona virus, and they knew a lot about corona viruses in general. They also knew how to develop a vaccine. They had a lot of knowledge before they even began and weren't starting from scratch.
ReplyDeleteThis is an unsafe, rushed through, unlicensed, experimental, no liability, gene therapy. It is not even a vaccine because it contains no part of the virus - instead it is injecting the gene coding to enable our cells to become creators of the virus spike proteins which our body might then attack. There is no short-term or long term data on it. There are so many unknowns that I won't have it. It is completely unethical to involve children in this global experiment.
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